What is a Pornstar?

[WendyWilliams]

So I recently talking to a female Pornstar and she got to me thinking of how "loosely" we use the word "PORNSTAR", I really like how this site has the upcoming, established and the well known Internet stars which brings up a some things that bother me when I see girls use the term loosely. So let me explain. I dont think in my lifetime we will see a Ts reach the status of Jenna Jameson, Belladonna , Tera Patrick OR Jenna Haze HOWEVER I do think we have ladies among our genre who have reached amazing points in their career from AVN, to tv apperance, mainstream work etccc.

Most girls and or fans will think its not that serious but when you work hard for a degree you earn the Dr, PHD, etcc and I think the term Pornstar should be given the same respect for those who truly earn that status. I honestly dont think its how many websites or dvd's you appear in but its the recognition, longevity, appearances and career that give you the honor of being a PORNSTAR!!

The days of Pornstars like Vo D' Balm, Kim Devine, Meghan Chavalier, Vaniity, Olivia Love, Gia Darling etc are almost non existance because those ladies could appear in many videos through the course of the year. Ladies like Vo and Meghan have appeared in 100's of videos of which today a girl would have to work atleast 7 years to get up in those numbers of videos. Those ladies have a dvd presence, web presence and a familiarity that many today will never have and really deserve the term PORNSTAR. Of course the next generation of , Joanna Jet, Vicki Richter came and for several years were producing 10-15 videos a year, made a huge impact on the dvd market and joined that elite group of ladies. Then my generation of Allanah Starr, Danielle Foxxx and I came onto the scene and did the same. Danielle and I reaching in the 30's for dvd's and 100's for internet scenes, magazines, and with the internet and help from Grooby etcc reaching outside of the normal ts market. So lets progress to the internet stars of today: Jesse Flores, Natassia Dreams, Sexxy Jade, Hazel Tucker, Mandy Mitchell and the list is growing weekly. I find it almost insulting to a point for a girl like Kimber James who has starred in 2 videos to be advertising herself as the #1 Pornstar in the World.........really?? We cant deny her beauty, we cant deny her HUGE fan base and I cant deny she is a Internet Sensation but a Pornstar? Yes she does Porn and could easily be Vaniity but her dvd presence and lack of presence with her fans I think has to be added into the formula.

Lets talk about the newcomers who are given this status by fans and producers who are thier friends or have a boner for them. These girls truly are our next generation of Pornstars but their self entitlement *sp* and those around them blowing smoke up their ass because they are the new fan favorite really does give those who have worked hard in the Indsutry to EARN that status or level of recognition. These girls are handed "fame" instantly which blows up egos. In 2005/06 the market was saturated with the same group of girls in almost all dvd releases and then this abundance of new girls came and because of this new boost to the genre instant "pornstars" were born.

I just wish and maybe Im being selfish, LOL,,,,,,but I wish the new ladies would remember to be thankful to those ladies before them and not to take it so serious as most have not earned what has been handed to them just yet.

Just some thoughts and ramblings....................Comments?


Also in January I will be passing my AVN title to the next deserving lady, here are my early favorites:
http://www.hotwendywilliams.com/blog/?p=1348

2004: Vaniity
2005: Vicki Richter
2006: Gia Darling
2007: Buck Angel
2008: Allanah Starr
2009: Wendy Williams
2010: ??

[GroobyKrissy]

Great topic and nice to see you here, Wendy :) Longtime reader of your Blog and big fan of your Interracial Tgirl Sex site :)

Well... I partly agree with you. As a blog writer, I've had this same discussion in my mind several times when trying to figure out how to refer to all the talented performers in the TS Porn Industry today. It's a little different for me since SEO obviously has a bit of an influence when writing blog posts... BUT...

So, the term 'Pornstar' I think is the loosest of the terms I use and I would categorize anybody as such who is PUBLICLY involved in the adult industry. Which means, either they have their own solo site, a DVD release from a legitimate production company in which they were a 'featured' (i.e. - central) model, or have had repeated appearances across related websites.

Other terms I use are, 'Shemale Star, Shemale Superstar, Transsexual Model, and TS Performer.' I typically only use the term Shemale Superstar to refer to the most well known models of today - Kimber James, TS Jesse, TS Foxxy, etc.

I can explain usage of the other terms if you'd like but back to the point...

I really don't think it's fair to base a term on the number of DVD's or videos released publicly since [mostly] financial obligations dictates that to a large degree. I wouldn't consider myself to be a 'Shemale' but I'm sure there are others like me who, if the finances were there, would gladly release DVD's and, seriously, with the amount of content I've shot over the years, I could easily release 30 full length DVD's. I just don't have the time, energy, or finances to release something with the production values I would want. I think that's probably the case of many independent Tgirls like myself. Plus, the advent of the digital age has basically rendered DVD's a moot point.

Additionally, I don't think it is insulting to refer to Kimber James as the '#1 [SHEMALE?] Pornstar in the World.' Honestly, I don't really know too much about her... but I do know that she likes expensive things :) And, I think in order to support her love of $1,500.00 Christian Louboutin shoes and handbags, she's got to be keeping a fairly busy schedule, personally (i.e. - escorting) and professionally (i.e. - shooting content). As you said, you really can't question her impact on the Industry today and her fan base is STILL growing DESPITE her lack of presence in the DVD market or somewhat lacking communication with her fans. I sincerely doubt that many other persons in the TS industry today come even close to the amount of google searches Kimber James generates... (1,390,000) - Danielle Foxxx (148,000) - Vaniity (92,900). (Olivia Love blows her out of the water with 10,400,000) So, based on numbers and recognition, I would say Kimber James truly is one of, if not THE #1 Shemale Pornstar in the world today.

I do, however totally agree that many of today's up and cummers feel a bit more self-entitled than they should. But, I also realize that this is the way this generation has been raised. EVERYTHING is immediate and self-gratifying today in a way that has never been before. To these girls, I think 'fame' is expected to be the same. Do I think that those who put the time and energy into furthering their careers (as you do) deserve more recognition? Yes. Do I think that's a realistic expectation given today's social morays? No.

Let's face the fact that PORN is, largely (I would say 99.9%) a dog-eat-dog industry. The dollar is the bottom line. Of course, people are going to try to capitalize on and promote who's currently hot and tend to neglect those who are 'one the way out' or can't draw the same numbers to sites, blogs, and etc. That's just good business. I wasn't really involved in the industry back then but I think if you went back to the days where the girls you mentioned WERE active, you'd find that the bulk of material (video releases, press releases, interviews, etc.) then favored them too. It's just the media and social morays were different then. Today's TS performers can, in the matter of literally minutes (twitter, facebook, yahoo groups) have content go up or launch a website and have it plastered across numerous other sites and TS forums or announced to literally 1,000's of people. These simply didn't exist in the 'good ol' days.'

At the bottom line, when I write, I base the titles I use (after taking into account SEO) on what I think public recognition is. Quite honestly, I think in today's market and trying to reach the 'next gen' Shemale porn lovers (20-35yrs), I think 'Hazel Tucker' or 'Kimber James' is much more recognizable than 'Vo D' Balm,' 'Kim Devine,' or 'Meghan Chavalier.' (I'd be interested to hear if this is the case from any 20-35 year olds reading this... honest answers please!)

Times are a'changing and it's time to let the next generation come forward... whether they've paid their dues or not.

[LibertyHarkness]

i will answer a brief reply as i am in the bath at moment and using my macbook :)

to me the term pornstar in any niche is just a common status almost like a badge ...lets break the word down into its 2 chunks - Porn & Star ... so ok technically we all work in porn ... and we all star in porn . boom pornstar is a sufficient title to be using ... i tend to use hte term porn model myself as i think pornstar is abit more higher status but as krissy says with the way the industry works these days people can get hyped . appear out of nowhere and be hitting a mass audience instantly// then bang the pornstar title ..

personally myself and some will think i am just stupid for saying it ,, i am not interested in being classifed a pornstar .. i am forging myself, my career by work i am doing, developing in the uk/eu markets and hopefully break the usa to the same level as some of the usa girls can...hard when your english .... but the goal i am chasing is to be iconic .... to me thats what i think the real accolade of achievement is ... a porn icon ...in the TS niche i would say there a few that i classify as iconic, and alot more in mainstream , fetish etc.. and i beleive to be iconic takes more than just looks, its personality, presence, what you do offcam in the scene, etc you become larger than life and entity of interest regardless if people like you or hate you .

i think there is a trend for models being lazy yes, some do seem to expect to be given it all on a plate.. myself i belive you get what you sow ...i am not the prettiest of girls, nor the curviest , but i do know one thing i do work alot dam harder than many i have seen, i design, bankroll , setup, find models , locations etc for all my own shoots, content .. i chased the companies to shoot me mostly , though a couple have approached me but thats a rarity...

So should people band themselves pornstars? who really cares at the end of the day people can call themselves what makes them happy the proof is in the reality of it all ... be it profit, recoginition, awards etc

errr my manic ramblings done x

Libb x

[WendyWilliams]

Krissy you post some interesting things and make some valid comments HOWEVER I must disagree on a few.

I am not talking about the term "Pornstar" literally Im talking about holding it to the same standards that the mainstream straight side does, a bonifide pornstar.

DVD's: How do you think the term came to existance, it wasnt by the internet it was ladies like Jenna Jameson making a name for herself in dvd's and then branding that name when the internet became popular. So with the Internet coming in and changing the direction of Porn how do we base the former to the newer??

Kimber James: I will NOT agree that she is #1 based on google hits or popularity of a website when ladies like Danielle Foxxx or Vaniity are still active in the Industry. I think Kimber is a HUGE Internet sensation which accounts for her google hits and that interest but it goes beyond a website to justify the status of #1.................Dvd's, website, apperances, fan interaction, branding ETCC Trust me when I tell you one's appetite for expensive things has NO colloration with success LOL I will admit she is of the rising Pornstars in our Industry but #1 is a bragging right she has NOT EARNED.


Recognition vs. Social Morays: Im not posting this because I think anyone owe's me anything because honestly my achievements and success on and off camera is enough for me HOWEVER IM speaking more to the producers and business owners. I understand its BUSINESS and the new "it" girl is where the money is but producers mixing business with pleasure, acting like gossiping school girls with them AND showing favoritism is really bringing me to my boiling point LOL

Just some ramblings!

[GroobyKrissy]

First of all, thanks for your input Liberty :) I hope you achieve 'icon' status well within your lifetime and I think that's a great goal to set! I'd be interested to hear what and who you'd consider to be icons in the SMPS world :)

Wendy,

Honestly, I'm afraid the term, 'Pornstar' in the way you've intended it has pretty much gone the way of 'Model' or 'Supermodel.' It is simply too much of a watered down term to be re-claimed again. With every actress, singer, and no-name talent (think Spidey and Jon and Kate) gracing the covers of magazines that were once the sole property of supermodels, now everyone and their grandmother could rightly be called a, 'model.' And, even THE self-proclaimed ORIGINAL Supermodel herself, Janice D. basically states that the term is useless these days.

Wiki now states:

A pornographic actor/actress or a porn star is a person who appears in pornographic films.

I can't verify that the term originated with Jenna Jameson (and the like) but I'm sure the term has far deeper reaches into history than that. To me, a pornstar is simply one who works publicly in the industry, (not behind the scenes like producers, photographers, crew, etc. etc.) and has amassed a following so as to be somewhat recognizable as a 'name.'

I am all for your contention that Vaniity (and others) are pretty deserving of acclaim... I saw her on an HBO special recently and that pretty much means you're huge. I think we may disagree on what the term, '#1' is referencing more than the term, 'Pornstar' in this case. I would say you have a legitimate right to call yourself #1 if you can draw the numbers (and Google is great for supporting that). Just as, a movie has the right to call itself the #1 movie in America if it draws the biggest box office for a given week... doesn't matter if people liked it, hated it, old movie, new movie, funny movie, dramatic movie... it's a numbers game... and Kimber James draws numbers.

So, I'm not basing my support of Kimber James solely on Google's numbers. I just used those figures as examples. And, I didn't mean to equate her taste for expensive items with success. What I implied is that she's got to support herself somehow and since she's got a penchant for expensive things, she must keep a pretty busy schedule, thus not being as vocal with fans as some of the other stars are. I do think it's a bit cheeky to say that she is one of the RISING stars in the Industry... there are hundreds of girls who would kill to be just a fraction of that 'RISING' of a star! Wherever the THERE of 'rising' is, Kimber has certainly attained it. In fact, I would say the fact that she doesn't have a lot of DVD's, doesn't make all kinds of appearances, doesn't have a lot of fan interaction and etc. and STILL has a huge following that many girls would die for, is testament enough that she has attained an unparalleled amount of success.

I honestly don't have a problem with producers, photographers, and the like cozy'ing up to some of the more recent stars... Obviously, they have a vested interest in seeing them become successful, and honestly, (maybe I'm way too trusting and naive) I think some of them actually do care about and enjoy the company of these newer girls.

I do get a little irritated when I see someone new bashing or disrespecting an older star (such as the whole Olivia Love ANTT 4 debacle). Or, in some circumstances, simply not caring for the work they've done to further the TS Industry as a whole. To me, disrespecting that (and them) is worse than trying to make an overstated claim... that's just simply human nature, vanity, and/or aggressive marketing, and is pretty much to be expected.

I hear you're starting a PR Firm for the Industry... KUDOS! Not to hijack the thread, but I think that's awesome and would love to hear more!

So refreshing to speak with someone who actually knows what they're talking about and can make good points :) I've had a couple of doozy's of conversations on some other boards these last few days :(

[WendyWilliams]

I didnt say Jenna Jameson created the term Pornstar, I said "ladies like her" it was only an example.

We will agree to disagree on Kimber James. Her success was greatly due to Gia Darling and Grooby Productions. But girls like Khloe Hart were on the rise also thanks to Grooby. Kimber just happen to want to make money and cashed in on it, good for her! So enough of her as she is already majorly overrated.

Now lets talk about the cozying up comment LOL......TRUST me as someone who is the brunt *sp* of the jokes and gossip by said producers, its nothing to do with concern (atleast not all the time) but alot to do with their dick, money, and wanting to be just as popular as the model herself. But thank goodness have my own Production Company.

As far as the PR Company I will speak more about it once I get the techinal and legal stuff for it squared away..................I have a Bachelors in Marketing/Communications so I enjoy this type of work and its really paid off in my career. I look forward to working with a select few girls and companies with doing all of their PR (booking appearances, radio, internet , Interviews, press releases etc for dvd/website etcc)..........Hopefully I can get a few Ts companies to hire me also and its going to be GREAT!!

[GroobyKrissy]

Cool cool :)

Fair enough... all for agreeing to disagree.

Well, good luck with the PR Company :) Hopefully it will do well for you :)

[Buddy Wood]

Interesting points all around!! I agree with Wendy big-time that the term pornstar should be somewhat earned...but I don't think there's any sort of black and white, standard set of rules to doing that. Especially nowadays. A lot of factors (the two most important probably being performance and popularity as they'll always be). And...it's just a term.

And that's sort of what the point was in the DVD Hazel Does Hollywood...at least with the title. The whole title is Hazel Does Hollywood: A Shemale Pornstar is Born. 1) Because it's a funny title. 2) Because it's a play on A Star is Born...and I like movies. But maybe most importantly 3) Because it was her first movie (or it was supposed to be...other companies have more of an assembly line process and beat me) and it was like ...fuck it...she's a pornstar. I knew she was awesome in the movie so might as well back it up in the title. Forget about knocking on the door...just kick it in. If she stays there...that's up to her and future work. If that was her only release this year I would think she could still be considered a pornstar just cuz I named the DVD that...? I dunno.

And having made a DVD and done a lot of work with Kimber I can say that she is her own entity...her popularity was something I didn't even understand as I was witnessing it and I don't think will happen all that often again. I went from not having ever heard of her...to spending most of about 2-3 months shooting on and off with her all pretty quickly. And quite honestly...we used to get in agruments over the term porn star and she thought it was a very overused term...she still may not think of herself as one and I'm sure doesn't care. I'll ask her in between her next shopping spree.

Anyway...I just think it's not all so black and white. You can just sort of "feel" when the term truly fits with a body of work to back it up. And yeah a lot of new girls think it's gonna be easy and have no idea and are certainly not deserved...but a good producer/director should know...and the fans always know. They have final say.

And as far as "producers" playing favoritism and all that...I have no idea what you speak of. All the smoke I've ever blow up asses is real smoke. lol. But I mean in my case do you think when I'm making a movie with Khloe, Hazel or Morgan Bailey I'm saying "Ehhhh...this should be ok. I guess some people will like it." lol. Hell No. I'm saying "We're gonna turn you into a fucking porn star." That's half the fun for me...and them. If that's a girl's motivation (or at least part of it - which a lot of the time it is) and I'm sure I can help get her there then yeah....It's a fun term. Not a technical term. And I would never tell it to a girl that I didn't think it could happen to or that I didn't think I could help achieve that status.

I work with girls I develop good relationships with or that I helped bring into the industry or have been shooting on and off for years now. For me it's become sort of like a tranny troupe or large circle of friends. Not much politics involved...just budget and time.

I don't know if I just said anything at all...but whenever I respond to these things I'm attacked.

I do like all your picks for possible AVN noms this year Wendy.

Oh and check out www.buddywood.com for future shemale PORNSTARS!!!!!

[Rage]

This has been a quite interesting read. I was referred here because Krissy posted on the Yum forum and just had to register because I think I have a perspective that all of you may have neglected.

There is such a thing as a pornstar and the person who occupies that status should be regarded as an individual who, within their genre of porn, is recognizable and synonymous with that genre. The problem is that though particular individuals may want to consider themselves pornstars the producers and consumers decide who achieves the status. You can perform in 100s of webclips or 10s of DVDs a year, but that doesn't make you a pornstar in the so-called mainstream porn genre or the TS genre. What makes you a star is whether you are a profitable commodity. Someone with sufficient notoriety such that their name/appearance is enough to promote and market a product, either a dvd or website clip. The amount of time it takes to cultivate that notoriety or the volume of of sex you need to have is truly irrelevant because longevity or productivity does not mean you have the talent to ever be a star. A pornstar must be considered, relative to the genre they are in, to be a well-known bankable actor or actress. That is all.

Now, the other thing that I think you are forgetting is that all celebrity is fluid. It has its ebbs and flows. In porn, the ebb and flow depends on the will of the consumer to return of more of the same when there is always someone new to look at. For example, let's use Shemale Yum's rating system. That entire system, despite Steven's claim, is proof that we respond to novelty more often than not. The top 10 is riddled with girls that have been shot recently. Does that mean that Ashley George is a pornstar now because she is number 1 on that site? Does it mean that she is the hottest girl on that site? No it doesn't but what it does mean is that in order to increase profitability, Ashley George will get a large push to keep rebills up. But Ashely George is not a pornstar. Neither is Chrissy or Harley Quinn (the current #2 and #3 girl on yum). They do not have a brand. And that is sort of the point in all of this. It comes down to the $$$ the girl can generate. If the Jesse Flores, Kimber James or Hazel Tucker brands are profitable, even though they don't have the resume of the Vaniity brand, the actresses behind those brands are still pornstars. If Ashely, Chrissy, Harley or any other number of girls out there, builds a brand that they can market that gets them notoriety, they too can be a pornstar.

In short, longevity does not always equate to profitability or celebrity but it obviously doesn't hurt either of those. Celebrity is based on commercial appeal. Clearly a career with both longevity and celebrity means you are a pornstar, but the former is not required. If you flash on the scene and have an amazing fan base established immediately, you are a celebrity, therefore you are a pornstar. The title of #1 pornstar or hottest pornstar, (whatever...list your favorite adjective) is meaningless marketing drivel. It is all subjective to the audience anyway. Someone that adores Kimber James will think she is the hottest pornstar just as someone that adores Joanna Jet will think she is the hottest pornstar. All that matters is that they are both pornstars. If you want to start to quantify which one is better, it also becomes so subjective to the criteria you use because there is never a universal criteria for anything. That's why we have a Miss America and Miss USA pageant. That's why we have FHM and Maxim coming out with 2 different hottest lists each year. That is also why we have at least 10 different BRANDS of peanut butter on supermarket shelves.

[GroobyKrissy]

I don't know if I just said anything at all...but whenever I respond to these things I'm attacked.

I do like all your picks for possible AVN noms this year Wendy.

Oh and check out www.buddywood.com for future shemale PORNSTARS!!!!!

Hiya Buddy :)

I think you stated your view just fine and I'm glad you stopped by to share your opinion :) It's interesting to hear the views of someone who does work right there with the models and earns the bread and butter shooting them.

You've almost got me believing you're more than just the funny guy from your Blog :) ...

No attacking here... I think we're all adults here :)

[WendyWilliams]

Opinions should never be attacked but discussed. I think your post was informative and opens some good dialogue that our porn community should be discussing now that we have an abudance of girls working. Its time for Producers also to start giving respect to those who have earned it and not to JUST their click. So Bravo for responding!


I def. agree that a GOOD Producer will "know" when that girl has the "it" factor and I think you are one of the good producers currently shooting content. I have only met you breifly and our online interaction has been interesting to say the least LOL HOWEVER you know that you do play favoritism and you have spoken candid among these "friends", only for those same friends to repeat entire conversations of candid conversation about other models especially for instance someone you have NEVER met, worked with and or interacted with. Its those things that I speak of and its VERY common among ALOT of producers in L.A, very clickish.

I think Hazels dvd is a testimate to your knowledge and her ability on camera and it truly is the DvD of 2009 for the OVERALL body of work including Hazel.

Listen I am NOT saying Kimber isnt a pornstar because obviously she has a great porn career HOWEVER #1 is a bit of a stretch.

She can claim #1 for google hits, I can claim #1 for the reigning Avn Winner, Vaniity could claim #1 for her this and that and this girl can claim to be #1 for the current fan favorite I am only discussing the business as a whole.







Interesting points all around!! I agree with Wendy big-time that the term pornstar should be somewhat earned...but I don't think there's any sort of black and white, standard set of rules to doing that. Especially nowadays. A lot of factors (the two most important probably being performance and popularity as they'll always be). And...it's just a term.

And that's sort of what the point was in the DVD Hazel Does Hollywood...at least with the title. The whole title is Hazel Does Hollywood: A Shemale Pornstar is Born. 1) Because it's a funny title. 2) Because it's a play on A Star is Born...and I like movies. But maybe most importantly 3) Because it was her first movie (or it was supposed to be...other companies have more of an assembly line process and beat me) and it was like ...fuck it...she's a pornstar. I knew she was awesome in the movie so might as well back it up in the title. Forget about knocking on the door...just kick it in. If she stays there...that's up to her and future work. If that was her only release this year I would think she could still be considered a pornstar just cuz I named the DVD that...? I dunno.

And having made a DVD and done a lot of work with Kimber I can say that she is her own entity...her popularity was something I didn't even understand as I was witnessing it and I don't think will happen all that often again. I went from not having ever heard of her...to spending most of about 2-3 months shooting on and off with her all pretty quickly. And quite honestly...we used to get in agruments over the term porn star and she thought it was a very overused term...she still may not think of herself as one and I'm sure doesn't care. I'll ask her in between her next shopping spree.

Anyway...I just think it's not all so black and white. You can just sort of "feel" when the term truly fits with a body of work to back it up. And yeah a lot of new girls think it's gonna be easy and have no idea and are certainly not deserved...but a good producer/director should know...and the fans always know. They have final say.

And as far as "producers" playing favoritism and all that...I have no idea what you speak of. All the smoke I've ever blow up asses is real smoke. lol. But I mean in my case do you think when I'm making a movie with Khloe, Hazel or Morgan Bailey I'm saying "Ehhhh...this should be ok. I guess some people will like it." lol. Hell No. I'm saying "We're gonna turn you into a fucking porn star." That's half the fun for me...and them. If that's a girl's motivation (or at least part of it - which a lot of the time it is) and I'm sure I can help get her there then yeah....It's a fun term. Not a technical term. And I would never tell it to a girl that I didn't think it could happen to or that I didn't think I could help achieve that status.

I work with girls I develop good relationships with or that I helped bring into the industry or have been shooting on and off for years now. For me it's become sort of like a tranny troupe or large circle of friends. Not much politics involved...just budget and time.

I don't know if I just said anything at all...but whenever I respond to these things I'm attacked.

I do like all your picks for possible AVN noms this year Wendy.

Oh and check out www.buddywood.com for future shemale PORNSTARS!!!!!

[GroobyKrissy]

This has been a quite interesting read. I was referred here because Krissy posted on the Yum forum and just had to register because I think I have a perspective that all of you may have neglected.

Hiya Rage :)

Thanks for taking the time to come on over here from the Shemale Yum Forum :) I appreciate it!

Your words are well put and basically what I was trying to say in responding to Wendy's points. I agree that the amount of media one has, really doesn't have any bearing on your status as a 'pornstar,' and that the popularity / draw (read: dollar) really is the bottom line.

You speak very well... I guess I should probably start reading all your other posts now :)

I always thought that the Hundred Hottest Lists from FHM and Maxim were funny... aren't they both owned by the same company?

That Ashley George definitely has a career in the industry if she decides to pursue it... what a cutie! Buddy... looks like you've got some friendly East Coast competition coming down the line!

[WendyWilliams]

Welcome but I disagree and agree with you on MANY levels as someone who is working in the Industry as talent and producer. However your post was VERY well said and made me think more on a few issues that I need to ponder further LOL

Longetivity has ALOT to do and DOES measure success especially in our market which isnt that big at all. Do you honestly think someone who has starred in 100's of dvd's, web clips and interent scenes would have this success if there wasnt a demand for them? Producers just dont hire someone over a 10 year span for nothing and nor can that persons website survice or dvd's sale if they didnt have an appeal.

Ratiing system: I TOTALLY agree and you hit the nail on the head. Thats part of my conversation about the new "it" girl. But your point almost backs up my "longetivity" claim since branding is something that takes time and work. Honestly only a few tgirls have branded their name beyond internet work or dvd's: Gia Darling, Allanah Starr, Joanna Jet, and myself. Examples of this is VERY relevant as time put in to achieve a status among just a model.

Consumers and Producers are buyers and producers of the Porn however their "favorite" doesnt define what a PORNSTAR is and I refuse to believe its that easy LOL............If thats the case than any girl with a fan would be a Pornstar.

Ugh once you look at different views its beyond complex but one thing I feel strongly about is the level of Respect by both Producers, models and Company owners for those small group of girls who have achieved a status beyond fan favorite.





This has been a quite interesting read. I was referred here because Krissy posted on the Yum forum and just had to register because I think I have a perspective that all of you may have neglected.

There is such a thing as a pornstar and the person who occupies that status should be regarded as an individual who, within their genre of porn, is recognizable and synonymous with that genre. The problem is that though particular individuals may want to consider themselves pornstars the producers and consumers decide who achieves the status. You can perform in 100s of webclips or 10s of DVDs a year, but that doesn't make you a pornstar in the so-called mainstream porn genre or the TS genre. What makes you a star is whether you are a profitable commodity. Someone with sufficient notoriety such that their name/appearance is enough to promote and market a product, either a dvd or website clip. The amount of time it takes to cultivate that notoriety or the volume of of sex you need to have is truly irrelevant because longevity or productivity does not mean you have the talent to ever be a star. A pornstar must be considered, relative to the genre they are in, to be a well-known bankable actor or actress. That is all.

Now, the other thing that I think you are forgetting is that all celebrity is fluid. It has its ebbs and flows. In porn, the ebb and flow depends on the will of the consumer to return of more of the same when there is always someone new to look at. For example, let's use Shemale Yum's rating system. That entire system, despite Steven's claim, is proof that we respond to novelty more often than not. The top 10 is riddled with girls that have been shot recently. Does that mean that Ashley George is a pornstar now because she is number 1 on that site? Does it mean that she is the hottest girl on that site? No it doesn't but what it does mean is that in order to increase profitability, Ashley George will get a large push to keep rebills up. But Ashely George is not a pornstar. Neither is Chrissy or Harley Quinn (the current #2 and #3 girl on yum). They do not have a brand. And that is sort of the point in all of this. It comes down to the $$$ the girl can generate. If the Jesse Flores, Kimber James or Hazel Tucker brands are profitable, even though they don't have the resume of the Vaniity brand, the actresses behind those brands are still pornstars. If Ashely, Chrissy, Harley or any other number of girls out there, builds a brand that they can market that gets them notoriety, they too can be a pornstar.

In short, longevity does not always equate to profitability or celebrity but it obviously doesn't hurt either of those. Celebrity is based on commercial appeal. Clearly a career with both longevity and celebrity means you are a pornstar, but the former is not required. If you flash on the scene and have an amazing fan base established immediately, you are a celebrity, therefore you are a pornstar. The title of #1 pornstar or hottest pornstar, (whatever...list your favorite adjective) is meaningless marketing drivel. It is all subjective to the audience anyway. Someone that adores Kimber James will think she is the hottest pornstar just as someone that adores Joanna Jet will think she is the hottest pornstar. All that matters is that they are both pornstars. If you want to start to quantify which one is better, it also becomes so subjective to the criteria you use because there is never a universal criteria for anything. That's why we have a Miss America and Miss USA pageant. That's why we have FHM and Maxim coming out with 2 different hottest lists each year. That is also why we have at least 10 different BRANDS of peanut butter on supermarket shelves.

[PK Vegas]

I want to throw my 2 cents in here too . . .

I feel that girls who establish themselves as "stars" on the internet are every bit as much of a pornstar as girls who have appeared in numerous DVDs. The only difference is that the advancement of technology has made the web the medium of choice now. The biggest names in the industry have all proclaimed DVDs to be dead. They are rapidly dropping in importance in our industry with the advancements of broadband to more and more homes. The death of DVDs does not mean we will not have any more shemale pornstars. Just like the death of VHS and Beta did not mean we would not have any more pornstars.

VHS was the reigning medium for as many years as DVD were. The top girls of the VHS era (ie Amber Lynn) would never say that Jenna Jameson was not a pornstar because she was not in VHS movies. With that in mind we can not hold back the honors due to the new girls coming along who are working hard to maximize their exposure and earning potential in the new medium of choice . . . the internet.

Every medium will bring new elements . . .but in the end . . . whether it is old 8mm film, VHS, beta, laserdisc, DVD, or internet . . . the cream will always rise to the top. Let's just be happy that we have all of the pornstars . . . Past, Present, and Future . . . for our viewing pleasure!

Thanks!

PK Vegas

[PK Vegas]

In addition . . . LOL

I definitely agree with Wendy that there has to be some longevity to a girls career before she attains PornStar status.

The way the industry is now any new girl coming along who looks good is going to get booked on all of the major websites and several second tier sites as well. She may also get a DVD scene or two with Joey and Devils. Then the slump hits. They shot for everyone and now nobody needs any more content with them for 6 - 12 months. Will they still be around? Will they still be in demand?? These are the true tests of a Porn Star. Is the demand real and ongoing.

We have the Up & Cummers section on this site to showcase the new girls that we think have the potential to be stars. I can guarantee we won't be right on ALL of them, but with the combined experience of the Grooby team we should be pretty close.) My feeling is that the girls who are Up & Cummers should have to make the rounds of shooting a couple times before they are promoted to full Porn Star status. Doing 10 shoots in their first month is normal now and no guarantee of longevity. Lets see if they last before we promote them to the highest levels of our industry.

Any thoughts on this ? ? ?

Thanks!

PK Vegas

[GroobyKrissy]

We have the Up & Cummers section on this site to showcase the new girls that we think have the potential to be stars. I can guarantee we won't be right on ALL of them, but with the combined experience of the Grooby team we should be pretty close.) My feeling is that the girls who are Up & Cummers should have to make the rounds of shooting a couple times before they are promoted to full Porn Star status. Doing 10 shoots in their first month is normal now and no guarantee of longevity. Lets see if they last before we promote them to the highest levels of our industry.

Any thoughts on this ? ? ?

Thanks!

PK Vegas

Hiya PK :)

I do think that a certain body of work does need to be before the public eye before she should regularly be referred to as a 'Pornstar' vs. TS Model or etc. That being said, I agree with you that there really isn't any difference between rendering a VHS / DVD and digital media. So, I would call a girl who has done three or four shoots (including video) and has a fan base a 'Pornstar.'

Honestly, I don't really see the term as a 'badge' or term of 'superiority.' It's just a short handed way to say, 'the girl who stars in adult movies who we like watching.' Seems like a lot of say over what, in the end, amounts to semantics...?

[WendyWilliams]

Krissy you might not see it as a badge but as someone like myself who takes her job very seriously and I have worked my ass off with doors being shut in my face constantly, being told I would never make it, Producers being shady and not shooting me because of their click ETC I take the word very serious and honored that I have achieved the status and can wear that badge.

But you know what who am I? Apparently just another "pornstar".

People wonder why mainstream porn doesnt take our genre seriously, its because our niche doesnt take it serious either. Simple as that!

[seanchai]

I'll just throw some points out as I've been following these threads with some amusement.

A pornstar is just someone who stars in porn and if they have a branded or recognisable name, then they are "the star" of the show. DVD's are irrelevant as the technology has moved on, as are awards, as nice as they are to received. You brought up Gia Darling who I think is a fantastic model and an absolute sweetheart but dull hardcores in my opinion, she was smart enough to launch her own company early and capitalize on that. Allanah also, as you know I'm good buddies with - you say she's a pornstar but didn't she win the AVN with, what three titles under her belt? (actually I agree with the award should be given for a performance in ONE scene - but nevertheless, she's not exactly done a load of DVD's).

Kimber James, is probably the number 1 shemale pornstar right now, you'll just have to get over it. I think she makes more for SMC then all their other solo sites put together and having her on Shemale Yum brought in a load of revenue. Her photos and reach are massive. It doesn't matter if you don't think she's paid her dues, Wendy, some people have to work at it, others just get it - it's no different from porn to any other form of modeling or performing. You mentioned also Harley Quinn ... well she's actually worked very hard at creating that Linetrap image and although she is only modeling for the time being, again the revenue and reach that she has, far surpasses many of the so-called "pornstars".

You said that Buddy plays favouritism ... well doesn't any producer - yourself included? You work with who you like, who you think performs well and whom you think suits the role. You seem to be taking exception at the "Hollywood cliques" but it's less of a clique than a group of people who are sellable, work well and available.

I'm a little confused mainly by this line:
level of Respect by both Producers, models and Company owners for those small group of girls who have achieved a status beyond fan favorite.

What respect? Surely the fans of those stars should give them respect but I don't go around giving James Cameron the respect for directing Titanic ... as I'm not a fan. What do you want from the producers?

I just think it's all a bit silly and a bit narcisstic really, claiming someone isn't a pornstar as they haven't made as many scenes as someone who has. It boils down to how much they make in starring in porn, what their reach is, how many fans they have and their overall popularity ... and Kimber James is certainly closer to Number One, then any other model I can think of right now ... regardless of what anybody thinks of that.

[seanchai]

Krissy you might not see it as a badge but as someone like myself who takes her job very seriously and I have worked my ass off with doors being shut in my face constantly, being told I would never make it, Producers being shady and not shooting me because of their click ETC I take the word very serious and honored that I have achieved the status and can wear that badge.

But you know what who am I? Apparently just another "pornstar".

People wonder why mainstream porn doesnt take our genre seriously, its because our niche doesnt take it serious either. Simple as that!

Who give you that badge?
What's wrong with being another "pornstar"?
I don't understand why your so outraged?

[WendyWilliams]

Outraged? LOL certainly not outraged one bit just making conversation...........Wasnt it you who sent me an email stating it was good topic??

I had a convo with a female pornstar and it brought up some issues I wanted to DISCUSS but you of all people should know I work hard in this Industry and enjoy my job so why not want to discuss it?

Its ok I will leave it be and not take part anymore as I certainly am not going to get bashed because of something I thought was a good topic,,,

[seanchai]

Outraged? LOL certainly not outraged one bit just making conversation...........Wasnt it you who sent me an email stating it was good topic??

I had a convo with a female pornstar and it brought up some issues I wanted to DISCUSS but you of all people should know I work hard in this Industry and enjoy my job so why not want to discuss it?

Its ok I will leave it be and not take part anymore as I certainly am not going to get bashed because of something I thought was a good topic,,,


I don't think your getting bashed Wendy? I've just responding to some of your posts that I completely disagreed with and it does seem like your very strong on your feelings on this. It's a great topic and you can see by the producers and models involved, that people find it interesting.

Let me answer the question I put to you ... who give you "the badge" of being a pornstar? Well it had to be both Wendy Williams AND her fans right? Nobody had access to how much money you made? Nobody was measuring your reach? You were a pornstar before you won the AVN award so that was irrelevant to this argument ... it was fans who bought your material and the producers who responded to those fans.

[GroobyKrissy]

Krissy you might not see it as a badge but as someone like myself who takes her job very seriously and I have worked my ass off with doors being shut in my face constantly, being told I would never make it, Producers being shady and not shooting me because of their click ETC I take the word very serious and honored that I have achieved the status and can wear that badge.

But you know what who am I? Apparently just another "pornstar".

People wonder why mainstream porn doesnt take our genre seriously, its because our niche doesnt take it serious either. Simple as that!

Wendy, (sorry...been busy!)

Hopefully you're still browsing and reading and will continue to post in other threads if not this one...

I wasn't saying that you don't [take work seriously]. Neither did I imply that you haven't faced challenges in getting to where you're at with your career.

What I am saying, with all due respect, is that it does come off as sounding a little bit 'petty' implying that someone else doesn't deserve to use the title of 'pornstar' when in reality, they are probably reaching as many or more people today, given the ability of digital media, as many of the larger pornstars of yesteryear. The world is changing and we simply have to change with it. What used to be 'work hard and reap the rewards' can now be had literally with one click of a mouse.

I've built my own site from the ground up... learned HTML on my own, shot all my own content, purchased all my own equipment... worked hard to build an affiliate program... With my initial shoot on SMY, basically took my whole career into my own hands. Am I proud of my accomplishments? Yes... Was I bummed that my site didn't win the 2008 Tranny Award when I think it IS one of the best solo sites out there? Of course. Did I cry foul and start complaining? Heck no... I went out and subscribed to the winning sites and checked them out to see how I could improve mine... and lo and behold... I even had to grudgingly agree that Tara's kicks ass and Delia's is far more interesting (damn webcams). Anyway...So...

Do I think my hard world entitles me to some higher recognition than someone who maybe has life a little easier with a full on production company to back them? NO. Take Hazel for example... On the contrary, I think it's great that she's had the success she has had and I recognize that in the long run, her fame only brings more acceptance and admirers for/of the TS community and eventually, they'll come across my site somewhere and hopefully join up. And obviously, I'm sure she puts in a fair amount of work too.

I wish more people were able to look at the bigger picture of the community as a whole instead of getting caught up in the day to day stuff. But, that's a whole other topic. I do think you've made some great points... I just happen to have a different view.

I don't think you can take a word like, 'Pornstar' and claim it as your own. There will always be those who think of themselves more highly than they ought and also those who don't think of themselves highly enough.

Actually, I think THIS is a great example of why the 'mainstream' world doesn't take the TS Industry very seriously (besides money... which I think is probably the main motivating factor in this industry as a whole). Just look at what we're discussing and getting all worked up over. One word. Just like, people get all worked up over the word, 'Shemale' or 'Tranny.' So we're going to fracture and split an already small (relative) community over who gets to call who a 'pornstar' ?

While the mainstream porn industry is fighting for more civil liberties, we're STILL trying to figure out who we can refer to as a 'Shemale,' who needs to be called a 'Transsexual' and etc. etc. Anyway... getting off topic again which I have a propensity to do to threads. Just wanted to answer your last since it was directed at me.

I never said you're JUST another 'pornstar' and to say as much is certainly taking a swipe at the integrity of my writing... which I think I do a pretty good job of protecting. I think I've told you enough times privately and publicly now that I think you've done a great deal in the industry and I respect the amount of work you put in to market yourself.

I think if you're looking for a title to differentiate yourself from the up and cumming Pornstars of today, maybe look at 'Producer' as a title... I think that carries far more significance and importance than Pornstar does... and certainly there are very few models who can say they actually produce their own content. That's what actors and actresses do to take things to the next level... usually ask for Producer credits in movies and shows. Anyway, just a thought.

[Mandy Mitchell]

This was an interesting discussion. I don't really aspire to be a celebrity pornstar myself nearly as much as I want to be able to make my own movies and finance my own projects. I like when people refer to me as a pornstar because it makes it much likelier that the hot babes I wanna shoot with will take my offers seriously. Other than that, I'd rather have a bag of money than online fame.

[Bluekarma]

It is easy to see that Krissy is an educated person with well thought out and rational points. I think Wendy is slighty bent about the fame part being wrongly or overly used. You are both right to a degree!
The real "porn-stars" ARE the ones who generate the most interest, whether it is fleeting or for the long haul, and there are examples of both in the TS world today. Yes, technology has made it Faster and Quicker to become a porn star today but that also means that people attention spans are shorter and you may just end up a Flavor of the Month! The girls that have been a round a long time and perhaps want to make a Comeback(recently Meghan Chavalier, Olivia Love) have the benefit of name recognition they generated back in the days of Video and DVD's and early internet. Girls trying to make a name for themselves NOW actually have a harder time due to the enormous numbers of shemales around now! I remember when there was just a handful of shemales(in the 90's) and now there seems to be hundreds if not thousands!) and they are all competing for limited money and space to be promoted. The only thing that gets them QUICK recognition is STUNNING LOOKS but that still doesn't guarantee Superstar status. Producers of websites(like SY, BTG, LBLB, Strokers) all want the next IT girl. But they still need a lot of filler because if a website doesn't give regular updates, members bail. And not all of the shemales on the sites are PornStars. They may use that term for promotion but until they have stuck around for a few years and have the numbers(google hits, DVD sales, Appearances on websites) they can't really justify using the term PORNSTAR. Starring in Porn, yes, Porn Star..no!
So, Wendy you are right in one regard. Longevity is good but it doesn't necessarily translate into making money for the long haul and using the title PornStar doesn't mean you are.
And Krissy, you make valid points about the modern state of porn today where instant pornstar status is possible, however it may not be long-lasting.
:cool:
Kimber who? Just kidding!

[hatchettjack]

i have been reading this thread and thought i would add a fans perspective. first and foremost, HAZEL TUCKER has been a pornstar since the day she decided she wanted to be one, there has never been a star in this genre that has captivated me like she has.. www.hazeltucker.com also i consider anyone who performs in a porn movie, a pornstar, if not just for the fact of how much they have to give of themselves. is kimberly kills a pornstar, hell yeah.. is wendy williams a pornstar, without a doubt... is amy daly a pornstar, absolutely...

about producers playing favorites.. i have not met a boss who didnt! that being said, buddy wood isnt stupid, it would be in no ones best interest for him to spend his time shooting content that doesnt sell!! money after all is the name of the game... buddy has an eye for talent, and is with a doubt the most talented photographer/producer i have ever seen!!! his work is nothing short of amazing... what he has meant to the industry gives him a right to call whomever he wants a pornstar.. the fact someone would question him is appalling...

[GroobyKrissy]

Oops! Guess I need to show my face a little bit more around here :)

Thanks for the responses y'all... It is an interesting topic to debate and I am certainly becoming more and more convinced that in the age of digital media, relatively instant success is more and more achievable which further waters down the meaning of terms like, 'Pornstar,' 'Superstar,' and the like.

I was channel flipping the other day and came across this reality show called, 'Pretty Wild' on E!... Maybe I'm wrong but as far as I can tell the only claim to fame one of the girls on the show has is that she was one of the ones who allegedly broke into Orlando Bloom's, LL's and someone else's house and robbed them? Surely if this girl can become a reality TV star, pretty much anyone who picks up a camera and shoots a crotch shot is going to call themselves a pornstar.

And yes, I know Christmas is over and I need to change my avatar :)

[WendyWilliams]

i have been reading this thread and thought i would add a fans perspective. first and foremost, HAZEL TUCKER has been a pornstar since the day she decided she wanted to be one, there has never been a star in this genre that has captivated me like she has.. www.hazeltucker.com also i consider anyone who performs in a porn movie, a pornstar, if not just for the fact of how much they have to give of themselves. is kimberly kills a pornstar, hell yeah.. is wendy williams a pornstar, without a doubt... is amy daly a pornstar, absolutely...

about producers playing favorites.. i have not met a boss who didnt! that being said, buddy wood isnt stupid, it would be in no ones best interest for him to spend his time shooting content that doesnt sell!! money after all is the name of the game... buddy has an eye for talent, and is with a doubt the most talented photographer/producer i have ever seen!!! his work is nothing short of amazing... what he has meant to the industry gives him a right to call whomever he wants a pornstar.. the fact someone would question him is appalling...



LOL appalling? I wasnt "questioning" him. He and I speak online all the time and have a good business friendship. You as a FAN see what is produced and nothing else. So please before questioning anything remember you dont see or know what goes on behind the scenes. I never questioned his work nor did I question him as a person.


I really had no intentions on responding to this thread as I am slowly distancing myself from anything that doesnt directly deal with me. However lets not think that anyone in our Industry is some SAINT who is worthy of their own cross LOL........well maybe Vaniity, Joey and Meghan LOL